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tangie
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tangie
commented
@001100010010011110
, As for symmetrical growth, I think it's difficult to speak of it in weeks, because it would be somewhat different for regular photoperiods and Ruderalis-derived autos, and I guess original landrace genetics would influence that. On my auto I have noticed asymmetric growth on higher nodes in the middle of week 5, but judging by where on the stem it was, it probably started as early as week 4. But I get your point anyways. As for splitting, that's an interesting theory! I imagine, then, that one could wait for a necessary number of developed nodes, and then take a sterile razor blade to the top two node branches and split them along the core, and then top the plant.. I think this concept is already used in mainlining (along with additional canopy management), but I might have confused techniques. If it works out, you get more leading colas out of the splits, if it doesn't you get to keep what you had below that node, and this essentially becomes an awful unsuccessful case of fimming. Not that I would be comfortable cutting my plant with a razor blade, there's something repugnant in that. I didn't even feel comfortable fimming. because I didn't want the plant to suffer. But as a scientific experiment it would be extremely interesting. Maybe someone already tried that, I should google. And read more on trunk/branch splitting techniques in general. Nice chat, thanks for sharing your experience! See you around
tangie
liked comment
@tangie
, the mutilated bit can actually turn into more then 2 branches + the two axilary buds just below that "FIM" are already formed and will pop out at nearly the same point on the stem. The damaged bits might only pop 1 if damaged the "wrong way" - whatever that entails. The leaves usually grow out with a missing chunk. if the scissors are fine enough, you could maybe avoid that? Like i said, if you want to do it, it's going to take time to find some minimum consistency with it (may or may not be truly consistent). wouldn't say it is impossible, but 100% consistency is highly unlikely. i could only guess as to actual cause and effect of how it happens. just damaged in a way that somehow splits the plant material that is growing into the original 2 new axillary buds (assumes symmetrical growth), and once split 'enough' each heals and tries to continue to grow out as individual branches, which may be more than the original 2, or not. Plant cells are compartmentalized and just "do" what they are programed to do. if the environment splits the material somehow, each tries to accomplish the original task. the symmetrical growth (pairs of axillary buds forming at each growth node) ends once a plant is more mature.. 6-8 weeks? it varies as far as when you see asymmetrical growth - 1 branch (axilary bud) per new node. and yea, 1 leaf per node too at that point. clones usually have asymmetrical growth due to their age.
tangie
added post
Tangie Auto (Box, Soil, LED) โ Buddha Seeds
tangie
commented
The plant is essentially a fractal, so technically fimming is topping, it's just that the next internode is so small and undeveloped that you can barely distinguish it from the leaves and branches stemming from this node. There are probably more than one node in that small growth, but they can only be identified at cellular level, and cannot be distinguished visually. Why not wait for that internode to extand slightly and do a clean cut (what's commonly called Topping) - this puzzles me.
tangie
commented
@001100010010011110
, i don't give a shit if you select an answer, lol - the least important thing is that contest That's perfectly fine by me, I'm asking questions to gain knowledge. I'm sure if you do it enuogh you can find the point at which you get nearly guaranteed results but wether its 2+1 or 2+2 or 2+3 is maybe less certain (2 axilllary buds that exist plus what comes out of the mutilated growth tip). And this is exactly what I'm trying to understand โ where those "extra" nodes are supposed to pop out from? I'm not yet intimately familiar with the plant's anatomy, and it probably varies a lot depending on genetic composition. What I saw with my plant is that early veg structure is the following: there are nodes with two symmetrical fans on either side of the plant, and they rotate ~90 degrees on the next node, meaning the leaves are N-S on one node, then E-W on the next one etc. Branches grow just above petioles from the same "attachment" points, one branch per fan. So, my thinking was, if you Top (clip a grown internode in the centre), you keep the branches the plant already had, and after a quick wtf the plant redirects growth to those branches within 2-3 levels (nodes) below the cut. If you FIM, at least the way it's taught almost everywhere, you effectively top a yet-undeveloped internode and also damage two fans. Hopefully, the branches growing out of this node are small enough that you don't damage them, and thus you get the same as you would get after Topping, minus two healthy fans on the top remaining node. Same number of nodes, same number of branches, even if the top two branches are just tiny green dots you can barely distinguish at the time of clipping. Now, if the plant is capable of growing additional (extra) branches which do not follow the scheme I described above, I would be interested to know where they can grow from? Can more than two branches grow from one node? Can additional branches appear on internodes? I'm talking about regular healthy plants of common genetics, not some mutant oddities. It appears that later in the cycle, the node structure begins to change, and fans do not necessarily "attach" on the same level. There can be one fan and one branch, and then slightly above there'll be the second fan with its branch. It's kind of a "single-leaf/branch-node". Not sure if I managed to explain myself clearly enough, but in short my question is "where the fuck would those extra branches grow from", specific points/areas on the plant. And when they're called "extra" how do people know that the plant would not have grown exactly the same amount of branches, had the plant been topped (as in clipped in the middle of a developed internode)?
tangie
liked comment
@tangie
, i don't give a shit if you select an answer, lol - the least important thing is that contest. and, you'll find a lot of people don't beleive what i said, but is in fact true. fimming is topping. topping is mutilating a portion of the plant to cause auxin to distribute more widely, causing more widely distributed growth. All that happens with a "FIM is that you don't quite cut off the growth tip and what remains can recover and form new axillary branches. You don't need to cut the fan leaves, like you said, so avoid it - just a portion of the growth tip is necessary. It's unpredictable and tough to plan around, so not something i've tried more than a few times for shits and grins. I'm sure if you do it enuogh you can find the point at which you get nearly guaranteed results but wether its 2+1 or 2+2 or 2+3 is maybe less certain (2 axilllary buds that exist plus what comes out of the mutilated growth tip). training will always be more efficient as far as saving vege time vs pruning growth off. There's no circumventing rate of growth that results from your environemnt. We can spread it out, but we can't change the overall rate too much. is it more efficient growth if spread out? maybe? but i wouldn't assume that. cutting off growth always is wasted resources/time. not saying it isn't useful or good to do, but that is what needs to be balanced when choosing to do so. With that sad i do both. i probably cost myself a 1-3 days of extra vege but it's a better distributed canopy - foundation of canopy anyway. As far as canopy management, i'd strongly recommend having an end goal/target and working backward from that to compose a strategy to get there. 2.5-3 colas per sq ft will ensure max yield and excellent light penetration while also fully covering the area. FIM'ing is 'neat' to showcase, but not something you can plan around consistently. it takes a little faith because even the first week of flower it's not fully filled in, but it'll get there. I'm sure i said it already -- cocoforcannabis.com has the best information with the least bro-science corruption. the guides and the dr photon's corner articles are all good. bruce bugbee is also another excellent no-frills source. IF it sounds like and advertisment with lots of bold promises, it's probably bogus information. "25% greater yield!" bullshit, lol.. unless it's supplementing co2, and even that isn't cost-effective.
tangie
commented
dude send nutes
tangie
commented
@001100010010011110
Thank you for your in-depth and technical answer to my ScrOG tucking question! It all makes sense now. I didn't know that ATP was that mobile. I learn as I go :D It would be great if you could review my other unanswered question on FIMing vs Topping, if you're experienced with those techniques. I have not yet found any credible, factual evidence that FIMing can lead to more branches/colas being produced vs Topping. People talk about FIM producing "3, 4 or even up to 7" leading colas instead of the original one, but I see no pictures or data to support that. Where do those extra branches grow out from? And this actually links well to your previous answer, because in FIMing you lose two fans. If you top and keep the fans, they will provide your plant with more ATP, which, I assume, would lead to faster and easier recovery and higher net leaf surface area of the plant at any later point in time, if (hypothetically) compared to exactly the same plant, growing in exactly same conditions, but FIMed above (at) the same node. Is this ("FIMing can produce more colas than Topping") just a completely fabricated self-perpetuating urban legend, or what? Thanks! Edit: By "unanswered" I meant to say that I have received very valuable advice, and I appreciate that a lot, but I have not received a direct answer to my very specific question :)
tangie
commented
๐๐๐ Added 4 x 12W strips with blue and red LEDs, currently running at 28W (7W x 4) total. Purpose: transmit light energy to "undergrowth" and scrog-tucked fans, help lower level branches. Will see if she responds well.
tangie
added post
Tangie Auto (Box, Soil, LED) โ Buddha Seeds
tangie
started following
Organoman
tangie
liked comment
@HighAltitudeOrganics
, nah, I'm "Southern Hemisphere". I too am scared that new home cultivators get put off enjoying themselves when starting with low yield/unstable autos. Autos really should be left for the experts running hydro and mega light installations to grow "product". Different ethos, different aim. I am into breeding my own acclimatised strains that almost "grow themselves" with very little input and no pest/disease issues, using only sunlight and a refined mix of soil of my own design, based on compost/manure etc (29 ingredients!) and a holistic "total soil health community of goodies" for my babies. It's just for me, so yields don't really figure, but healthy quality does. I envy your situation, here we have to keep everything in the shadows and to be able to grow and breed plants in an open atmosphere would be wonderful. It seems being addicted to opiates is OK, but growing a plant is a no-no. Strange really.
tangie
commented
Experimenting with CO2 tabs. Put one in a soda can filled with water and placed the can inside the tent at the beginning of the "day". The room was semi-sealed also.
tangie
liked comment
@tangie
, yes the color looks better on the photo now. But still wouldnt cut out Nitrogen. Its quintessential for the growth. Color is always the first appearing indicator for certain things and good to know about, since then you wont have any damage and can react in time.
tangie
added post
Tangie Auto (Box, Soil, LED) โ Buddha Seeds
tangie
commented
@modmyplants
Thanks a lot for answering my question! I have uploaded another photo to week 3 which is much more true to the actual plant colour. Camera gets colours too wrong, but I didn't realise it was of importance for this question and didn't bother fixing it.
tangie
added post
Tangie Auto (Box, Soil, LED) โ Buddha Seeds
tangie
commented
She's responding to increased LED power and 1/2 nutrient solution very well. ๐๐๐ The lamp is currently at PPFD 850 umol/m2/s
tangie
added post
Tangie Auto (Box, Soil, LED) โ Buddha Seeds
tangie
commented
Incredible super-frosty shit! I'm almost feeling on my fingertips how sticky she was! This is just flower porn fr