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๐ŸŒฟ Frosted Guava Auto by Zamnesia | Pheno B | Week 10 โ„๏ธ The Dark Green Sister Is Getting Frostier by the Day Welcome back to another chapter of the 8ร—8 Adventure! ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿ’š And this girl... Wow. She's getting even darker. I honestly don't know how many different ways I can describe the colour anymore. ๐Ÿ˜‚ Deep green. Dark green. Rich green. Almost ridiculously green. And now, alongside that incredible foliage, we're seeing beautiful compact flowers, serious frost, a strong aroma, and another characteristic that her sister is showing too: foxtailing. ๐Ÿฆ„โ„๏ธ And that's getting interesting. Because when two plants from the same genetic line, growing in the same room, under the same general conditions, both begin showing the same unusual characteristic... well... I'm starting to suspect genetics may have something to do with it. I'm not saying that's definitely the explanation. I'm not going to pretend I can prove it from two plants. But it's certainly interesting. And that's exactly what this experiment is here for. Observe. Document. Compare. Learn. And enjoy the hell out of the process. And this girl? She's giving me plenty to enjoy. ๐ŸŒฑ One Room. Twelve Personalities. For anyone joining the 8ร—8 Adventure for the first time, welcome! The concept behind this project is something I absolutely love. We're growing twelve different plants in the same room, using the same general environmental strategy, lighting ecosystem, irrigation philosophy and nutritional program. The plants are all being grown under a 12/12-from-seed approach. Same room. Same grower. Same general conditions. And yet... they develop completely differently. That's the beauty of it. The environment gives them the opportunity. Genetics decide what they do with it. And Frosted Guava Pheno B is certainly making her own decisions. She's not the tallest. She's not trying to dominate the tent. She's not asking for constant attention. Instead, she's becoming something I really enjoy: compact, dense, dark, frosty and beautifully individual. And now she's showing us that her sister isn't the only one with a little unicorn behaviour. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿฆ„ ๐Ÿ’š Even Darker. Even Deeper. Let's start with the thing I can't stop noticing. That colour. She's getting even darker. The lower foliage in particular is incredibly deep green. And I absolutely love it. It's one of those characteristics that has become part of her identity. When I look at her now, I don't have to wonder which Frosted Guava I'm looking at. I know. That's Pheno B. The dark one. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ’š And the contrast is fantastic. Those deep green leaves surrounding increasingly frosty flowers make the developing buds stand out beautifully. The plant almost has this layered appearance. Dark foliage. Bright pistils. Green calyxes. And then... frost everywhere. It's a beautiful combination. โ„๏ธ Frosted Guava Is Definitely Living Up to Her Name And the frost... Wow. She's becoming seriously frosty. The resin coverage is increasingly obvious across the flowers and sugar leaves, and the photographs really capture how much the plant has progressed. At this stage, the flowers don't just look like developing buds anymore. They look like proper little structures. Compact. Dense. Covered in resin. And surrounded by those beautiful dark leaves. This is exactly the stage where I start getting impatient with my own camera. ๐Ÿ˜‚ Because there is always another detail to photograph. Another flower. Another angle. Another little pocket of resin. Another structure that looks completely different when you get closer. And the closer you get... the more interesting she becomes. ๐ŸŒธ Compact, Dense & Beautiful Her flowers are developing in a way I really like. They're compact. They're dense. They're well defined. And they're carrying plenty of resin. She's not producing those enormous elongated structures that some of the taller girls in the room are developing. She's doing something different. She's building compact flowers with a lot of visual density. And I think that's one of the things that makes this phenotype so attractive. She's not trying to be her sister. She's not trying to be the tallest plant in the room. She's simply building the way she wants to build. And honestly? She's doing a damn good job. ๐Ÿฆ„ And Yes... More Foxtailing Now let's talk about the little unicorn horns. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿฆ„ Because they're still there. And after looking at her sister... I'm becoming increasingly curious about this. Both Frosted Guava sisters are showing foxtailing. Does that prove it's genetic? No. Not by itself. Could genetics be playing a role? Absolutely possible. And that's precisely why I'm interested. Because they're sharing the same room. The same general environment. The same lighting ecosystem. The same nutritional strategy. And they're both showing a similar characteristic. That makes the genetic component an interesting possibility. There can obviously be other factors involved in foxtailing too, so I'm not going to declare a scientific conclusion based on two plants. But for the purposes of this diary? It's absolutely worth documenting. And personally... I like it. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ’š It makes the flowers look peculiar. It gives them character. It makes them less predictable. And you already know... I like peculiar. I like unique. I like unicorns. So I'm perfectly happy watching this expression develop. ๐ŸŒฟ Her Own Kind of Beautiful One thing I really enjoy about Pheno B is that she doesn't need to be spectacular in the same way as another plant. She's spectacular as herself. She's around 108 cm. She's compact compared with some of the giants around her. But when you look at the flowers? She doesn't feel small. When you look at the frost? She doesn't feel small. When you look at the density? Definitely not small. And when you smell her... well... she certainly doesn't feel small. ๐Ÿ˜‚ The aroma is becoming much more noticeable now. That's another sign that we're moving deeper into this stage of the journey. The flowers aren't just looking mature. They're starting to announce themselves. ๐Ÿ‘ƒ She's Starting to Smell And yes... she's smelling. That's becoming increasingly obvious. It's another one of those moments in a grow where the plant starts engaging another sense. First you see the flowers. Then you photograph them. Then you start noticing the resin. And eventually... you walk into the room and think: "Okay... hello there." ๐Ÿ˜‚ Frosted Guava Pheno B is becoming increasingly aromatic. And I'm very curious to see how that develops as she continues toward maturity. Because the visual side is already giving us plenty. Now the nose is joining the conversation. โœ‚๏ธ No Need to Chase Her With Scissors After the selective cleanup we gave her previously, I'm not looking to keep interfering. She's got what she needs. The canopy has been opened where appropriate. The room is being maintained. The plant is developing. And now... I want her to work. This is one of those stages where I think observation becomes more valuable than intervention. The plant has already shown us her architecture. She's already shown us her flowering style. Now we're watching the flowers mature. So I'm not going to chase every leaf or every little characteristic. She's healthy-looking. She's developing. She's frosty. She's smelling. She's beautiful. That's enough for me. ๐Ÿ’ก Still Eating Photons The lighting ecosystem remains consistent. The Future of Grow Black Series LED continues providing the primary overhead lighting, while Lumiflora contributes additional illumination into the lower canopy. And Pheno B is clearly making use of the available light. She's maintaining those beautiful dark leaves while continuing to develop her flowers. Again, I'm not interested in forcing an explanation onto every characteristic we see. The foxtailing is there. The frost is there. The flower density is there. The colour is there. And the plant is telling us her story. Our job is to listen. ๐Ÿ’ง Feeding Continues The flowering nutrition remains consistent with the general program being used across the room: ๐ŸŒธ Plagron Terra Bloom โ€” 2.2 ml/L ๐ŸŒฑ Plagron Power Buds โ€” 1 ml/L โœจ Plagron Green Sensation โ€” 1 ml/L ๐Ÿฏ Plagron Sugar Royal โ€” 1 ml/L โš—๏ธ pH adjustment as required Current recorded solution strength remains approximately: EC: ~2.0 mS/cm with: pH: ~6.0 Watering is approximately: ๐Ÿ’ง 1.2 L per plant / 24h And that's really the story right now. We provide. She responds. We observe. She keeps growing. It's a very nice relationship. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ’š ๐ŸŒก๏ธ Week 10 Conditions Current GrowDiaries conditions: ๐ŸŒธ Flowering: Week 10 ๐Ÿ“ Height: 108 cm ๐Ÿ’ก Light schedule: 12/12 ๐ŸŒก๏ธ Day temperature: 29.9ยฐC ๐ŸŒ™ Night temperature: 25ยฐC ๐Ÿ’ง Relative humidity: 72% โš—๏ธ pH: 6.0 โšก EC/TDS: ~2.0 mS/cm ๐ŸŒก๏ธ Solution temperature: 25ยฐC ๐ŸŒฑ Substrate temperature: 26ยฐC ๐ŸŒฌ๏ธ COโ‚‚: 639 ppm ? Pot size: 15 L ๐Ÿ’ฆ Watering: ~1.2 L per plant / 24h ๐Ÿ‘ƒ Smell: Strong The environment remains consistent with the overall project. And the plant? She's continuing to do exactly what she's been doing best. Being herself. ๐Ÿ“ธ This Week's Gallery The photographs this week really make the story easy to understand. Look at the flowers. Look at the density. Look at the resin. Look at those colours. And then look at the foliage surrounding everything. That deep green is incredible. The flowers almost pop out from the darkness of the leaves. And the closer photographs show just how much development is happening. The pistils. The calyxes. The resin. The compact structure. And, of course... those little foxtailing formations. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿฆ„ It's a really beautiful combination. ๐Ÿ”ฌ Two Sisters. One Interesting Clue. This is probably the part I'm most curious about now. Her sister is foxtailing. She's foxtailing. They're both Frosted Guavas. They're both in the same room. And they're both showing it. Again... I'm not going to pretend that's enough evidence to scientifically prove anything. But it certainly makes me wonder. Could this be part of the genetic expression? Maybe. Could other factors contribute? Of course. That's why we're documenting it. If both sisters continue showing the same behaviour as they mature, that's going to make the genetic explanation even more interesting to me. And that's exactly why I love this experiment. Sometimes you don't get an answer immediately. Sometimes you get a question. And a good question is still valuable. ๐Ÿ’š The Dark Green Girl If I had to describe Pheno B today in just a few words: Dark. Compact. Dense. Frosty. Aromatic. Peculiar. Beautiful. That's her. She's not the loudest plant in the room. She's not the tallest. She doesn't demand constant attention. But every time I stop and look at her... there's something else to appreciate. And that's a very good kind of plant to have. ๐Ÿ”ฎ Looking Ahead Now I'm genuinely curious about where she goes next. She's clearly moving toward a more advanced stage. The flowers are established. The resin is abundant. The colour remains incredible. The aroma is increasing. And the foxtailing continues to give her that peculiar little signature. So now... we wait. We watch. We photograph. We smell. ๐Ÿ˜‚ And we see how she decides to finish. Will the flowers continue becoming denser? Will the resin increase even further? Will the foxtailing become more pronounced? Will her colour remain this incredibly deep? And how will she compare with her sister when both are finally finished? I have no idea. And that's exactly why I'm enjoying this. โœจ Let This Dark Beauty Shine Frosted Guava Pheno B has really settled into her identity now. She's the darker sister. The compact sister. The dense sister. The frosty sister. And apparently... the foxtailing sister too. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿฆ„ She's not trying to become something else. She's simply doing her thing. And that's exactly what I want. We provide the environment. We provide the nutrition. We provide the water. We provide the light. And then... we let her shine. Because she absolutely deserves the spotlight. ๐Ÿ’š Final Thoughts โ€” She's Becoming a Little Unicorn Week 10. And I think Frosted Guava Pheno B is becoming one of the most visually interesting plants in this room. She's not huge. She's not trying to be. She's compact. She's dense. She's incredibly dark green. She's beautifully structured. She's getting extremely frosty. She's smelling. And she's developing those little foxtailing structures that make her flowers even more peculiar. And now that her sister is showing the same thing... I'm paying even more attention. Maybe it's genetics. Maybe it's partly genetics. Maybe other factors are involved. I don't know yet. And I'm perfectly comfortable saying: I don't know yet. That's what the experiment is for. We're here to watch. We're here to compare. We're here to document. We're here to learn. And sometimes the plant doesn't give you an answer. Sometimes she gives you another question. And this girl has given me a very interesting one. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿฆ„๐Ÿ’š But whatever the explanation... I like what I'm seeing. I like unique. I like peculiar. I like flowers that don't all look exactly the same. And this girl certainly isn't boring. She's beautiful. She's dark. She's frosty. She's compact. She's aromatic. She's developing quickly. And she's doing it all without asking me for much more than what we're already providing. So let's keep doing exactly that. No unnecessary drama. No unnecessary intervention. Just: provide, observe, document and enjoy. Because Frosted Guava Pheno B is doing a damn good job of the rest. Let's make this dark green beauty shine. โ„๏ธ๐Ÿ’š๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿฆ„ ๐Ÿ™ Thank You A huge thank you to GrowDiaries for giving us a place to document this crazy 8ร—8 Adventure and share the differences that appear from plant to plant. Thank you to Zamnesia for the Frosted Guava genetics behind these fascinating sisters. Thank you to Plagron for supporting the nutritional side of the adventure. Thank you to Future of Grow LED for the main lighting driving the room. Thank you to Lumiflora for bringing the under-canopy lighting dimension into the experiment. Thank you to TrolMaster for helping maintain and monitor the environment behind the scenes. And, of course... thank you to everyone following along. Every week. Every photograph. Every comment. Every question. Every little observation. That's what makes this adventure what it is. And Frosted Guava Pheno B? She's giving us another beautiful chapter. Deep greens. Compact flowers. Serious frost. A growing aroma. A little foxtailing. And a whole lot of personality. She's very different from her sister. But every bit as beautiful. And maybe... just maybe... we've got another little unicorn hiding in this room. ๐Ÿฆ„๐Ÿ’š For now, we're not making conclusions. We're just watching her shine. Let's make her shine! โ„๏ธ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿ’š Growers Love & Happy Growing! ๐ŸŒฑ๐Ÿ’š
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@IamCy
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Questa settimana lei ha dato uno scatto di crescita veramente enorme! E arrivata facilmente a 1 metro di altezza (mi arriva al mio gomito) Si iniziano a sentire un po' di dolci odori, molto leggeri ma ci sono! I pistilli iniziano a riempire i calici e le punte tendono a diventare piรน chiare (simbolo di inizio fioritura) non mi aspettavo tutta questa crescita considerato si รจ beccata 2 topping , uno al 5 nodo e li altri due al secondo uno da destra e l'altro da sinistra...si รจ veramente ripresa stupendamente anzi in realtร  non ha mai dato segni di rallentamento! Ecco perchรฉ io adoro le genetiche di ANESIA ! Sono veramente stabili , segno di numerosi incroci! Anche i loro fertilizzati sono veramente ottimi grazie al biopotenziatore adesso cresce il micelio nel mio substrato!!! Mai vista una cosa del genere prima! Sul serio tutta la potenza in solo 3 prodotti! Ringrazio veramente i ragazzi di anesia per queste splendide genetiche ! Per non parlare della semplicitร  di preparazione! Grazie ancora a tutti voi per essere sempre in prima linea con i vostri commenti e likes! ๐ŸŒˆ๐ŸŒฑ๐ŸŒˆ Auguro una buona giornata a tutti voi!!!!๐Ÿ˜˜
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Final week update I am trimming the plants as they get ripe leaving them under the lights for a few days before I chop them. My theory is that trimming them makes them think they are being attacked by something and what are the plants defense ๐Ÿค” to get sticky and stinky ๐Ÿค” I do see a difference after a couple days, some more than others but all of them add terpenes and trichomes โ„๏ธ๐Ÿ”ฅโ„๏ธ๐Ÿ”ฅ Thank you all for visiting and following along with me... Cyrus
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Here we are at roughly 3.5 weeks ane everything looks to be on track. These fastbud genetics are top notch. Cant wait for them to finish up.
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@SAC87
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Day 49-56: Theyโ€™re still growing. It really slow and itโ€™ll be what itโ€™ll be, if the flower is crap Iโ€™ll turn it into concentrates. R3 is looking ok, CbDreams pistils are darkening and the buds are getting bigger. R2 has a ton of leaf, with full size fans coming off tiny off shoot branches. It may be better for a sog where it could be removed and defoliated better. Smell is getting to be slightly noticeable even with the carbon filter in place. Just going to keep running it for a few more weeks and see what happens.
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@Kirsten
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17.3.25: So I watered with 2ltrs of dechlorinated water PH'd to 6.4 with 4ml Xpert Nutrients Cal-Mag amino acids. I have really overdone the nutrients, I got carried away ๐Ÿ˜… To try and rectify the situation, I've cut everything out except Cal-Mag amino acids. I will try to just stick to this with some Biosys, but I'm running out of that now, too. Anyway, with Or Without, I'm sure it'll balance out. Fingers crossed ๐Ÿคž
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Hey everyone ๐Ÿ˜ƒ. All women develop super :-), and start very well to roots. In the coming days it will be switched to 12 / 12h, as she had an extreme stretch on Aero the last time, and this time I want to leave all 8 trees to get slightly smaller trees ๐Ÿ˜Š. To ensure that the stretch is not completely absent, I now have some Canna Aqua Vega for a few days. The water was completely fresh beforehand and the tent was cleaned. The plastic heads were sprayed. I wish you all a lot of fun in the first real and last vegi week โ˜บ๏ธ, stay healthy ๐Ÿ™๐Ÿป and let it grow ๐Ÿ€ You can buy this Strain at : www.Zamnesia.com โ˜๏ธ๐Ÿผโ˜๏ธ๐Ÿผโ˜๏ธ๐Ÿผโ˜๏ธ๐Ÿผโ˜๏ธ๐Ÿผโ˜๏ธ๐Ÿผ Strain Gelato clone from mother (Zamnesia ) โ˜๏ธ Genetics: Wedding Cake x Gelato x Gelato 33 ๐Ÿ‘ Vega lamp: 2 x Todogrow LED CXB3590 COB 55 W 1 x Sanlight S2W 62 W ๐Ÿ’ก Flower lamp : 2 x Todogrow LED CXB3590 COB 55 W 1 x Sanlight S2W 62 W ๐Ÿ’ก โ˜๏ธ Grow Aero System : Growtool 0.8 โ˜๏ธ Fertilizer: Canna Aqua Vega A + B , Canna Aqua Flores A + B , Rizotonic, Cannazym, CANNA Boost, Pk 13/14, Canna Cal / Mag, Canna Ph - Grow, Canna Ph-Bloom โ˜๏ธ๐ŸŒฑ Water: Osmosis water mixed with normal water (24 hours stale that the chlorine evaporates) to 0.2 EG. Add Cal / Mag to 0.4 Ec Ph with ph- to 5.2 - 5.8 ๐Ÿ’ฆ ๐Ÿ’ง
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@Hawkbo
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Sorry for the delay was in a wedding this weekend came home and been trimmin like a dog the past few days and didnt have time to do the update but I'll do another one before tuesday to get back on track. As of Friday sept 6 its day 46. In the video the plants from back left to right are .. Gelato-> Cream Cookies -> Gelato Middle row from left to right are Lemon A.K 1 -> 6 Shooter-> Lemon A.K Front is Tester 5 -> Lemon A.K -> Tester 26 5 is prob gunna be done first
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Que pasa familia, vamos con la sexta semana de floraciรณn de estas Wedding Cheesecake Fast Flowering, de FastBuds. Agradezco a Agrobeta todos los kits obtenidos de ellos ๐Ÿ™. El ph se controla en 6.2 , la temperatura la tenemos entre 21/24 grados y la humedad ronda el 50%.Tienen un color espectacular, estan a 12-12, iremos viendo cรณmo avanzan. Agrobeta: https://www.agrobeta.com/agrobetatiendaonline/36-abonos-canamo Hasta aquรญ todo, Buenos humos ๐Ÿ’จ๐Ÿ’จ๐Ÿ’จ
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@Kushizlez
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Zkittlez Yield: 39.4 Smell: 7/10 - sweet, candy, berry, gassy, piney hints Bag appeal: 6.5/10 - slightly leafy/stemy Crystal coverage: 7.5/10 - very impressed Ash: 8/10 - thick, uniform white ashes Fire holding: 8/10 - stays lit for seconds Smoke: 7.5/10 - taste is decent, needs curing High: 7/10 - indica dom Comment: looks nice, smells nice, tastes nice, burns great but smalls didnโ€™t fill out. 51.5/70 = 73% ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ”ฅ
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Strain: Fast Buds โ€“ Mendo Guava Auto Grow Type: Indoor Pot Size: 3 Gallon Pot Medium: Peat Moss & Perlite Nutrient Line: Athena Week 3 Update Wellโ€ฆ so much for the Fast Buds outdoor grow ๐Ÿคฃ?. This girl never actually made it outside, so I guess she's officially an indoor girl now lol. There's always next year ๐Ÿ˜ฉ. That aside, she's doing really well. For only 3 weeks, the growth has been pretty insane she's thriving, pushing out vigorous growth and already starting to transition into flower. I'll be switching her over to Bloom this week as she moves further into the transition. So far there are no issues to report at all. She's healthy, moving fast and honestly looking better than I expected at this stage. At this point, I'm just going to let her keep doing her thing and see how much more she stretches before she fully settles into flower ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿ”ฅ Feeding Volume: 750ml Athena Grow: 45ml/gal Athena Core: 25ml/gal pH: 6.2 PPM: 700โ€“800 ppm Frequency: As needed Indoor Climate Conditions (Transition) ๐ŸŒก๏ธ Temperature: 20โ€“25ยฐC ๐Ÿ’ง Humidity: 55โ€“60% ๐Ÿ“ˆ VPD: 0.9โ€“1.1 kPa ISLANDT โ€“ 15% off Fast Buds strains ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿ”ฅ
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Not having any problems except a few bugs not enough to worry about.
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I'm wanting to replace all my miscellaneous lights with another quantum bar rig before my Fall grow this year. Anybody want to buy some gently used lighting gear this summer???๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜Ž ๐Ÿ‘‰ 2 x 100w Cree CXB3590 (3500k) with pin heatsinks - 3 grows usage ๐Ÿ‘‰ 1 x 100w Citizen Clu048 COB (3500k) with pin heatsink - 3 grows usage ๐Ÿ‘‰ 1 x 120w DIY quantum board (3000k) 256 x LM301b's - no heatsink - used for 2 grows ๐Ÿ‘‰ 1 x 60w Bridgelux COB (3500k) - Par38 style - used for 1 day (a back-up bulb) ๐Ÿ‘‰ 1 x Morsen 2000w (367w actual) blurple with a bank of 1/6 of the 200 LEDs not working - used 3 grows ๐Ÿ‘‰ 1 x Morsen 2000w (367w actual) blurple with only my current grow in use (the replacement) ๐Ÿ‘‰ 1 x HeroLight 1500w (285w actual) 5 x COB full spectrum (pinkish-white) - 2 veg stage uses ๐Ÿ‘‰ 4 x 36w Par38 type deep red (660nm) bulbs - 3 grows usage ๐Ÿ‘‰ 2 x 25w 225 LED panels (660nm) - 3 grows usage ๐Ÿ‘‰ 2 x 25w 225 LED panels (440nm) 4 veg stage uses ๐Ÿ‘‰ 2 x 25w 225 LED panels (440nm) ๐Ÿ‘‰ 1 x 50w 225 LED panel (6500k+440nm) ๐Ÿ‘‰ 1 x 20w Par38 style Cree COB (3000k) - (more like a 40w) - used for a week ๐Ÿ‘‰ 1 x 15w Sansi blurple Par38 type bulb - used 1 day only ๐Ÿ‘‰ 1 x 40w Sansi 4000k daylight Par38 type bulb - used during germination only ๐Ÿ‘‰ 4 x 12w MiracleLED red spectrum (4000k daylight + 700nm red) regular light bulb - used during flowering in 2 grows Just hit me up in chat if you are interested in anything- ============================================ SUNDAY 3/31: I foliar fed her a few times and rotated her. Almost have the lighting timers adjusted well enough to keep the PAR high while keeping temperatures low enough for successful flowering. MONDAY: spun her around and foliar fed a few times TUESDAY: I fed her about 3/4 gallon and started her on Open Sesame and Tiger Bloom. Foliar fed a few times and tweaked the timers again.. WEDNESDAY: I foliar fed a few times and rotated her, then took some photos. She's looking sexy!๐Ÿ˜ THURSDAY: I foliar fed her a few times and rotated her. FRIDAY: I watered her with about a half-gallon including boomerang, bud candy, calimagic, terpinator, kelp me kelp you, and armor si. She's the most Sativa-looking plant in either of my tents, but still currently winning the race to the finish.
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Seventh week, day 46, keeping on cropping and LST, dominant colas in #1 have been fimmed and #3 has been topped. The stretch should start within a few days. Feeding schedule is going to change just after the stretch.
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STRAWBERRY PIE AUTOFLOWER (FASTBUDS) SOLO CUP GROW WEEK 10 She is nearing the end. Trichomes are mostly cloudy with some amber here and there. Likely give her another day or two before the chop.