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After all the failures I thought I'd wait for signs of life before posting - RQS really don't seem to have let me down. I received 3x Triple G, 3x OG Punch and 3 complimentary Critical - all feminised.
After all the failures I was reticent to post anything until I had some signs of action, and boy did I get it!
For the first time, the seed was so fresh that when I went to soak it overnight it sank straight to the bottom of the glass. So... straight into the rockwool we go! 1l of nutrients created, airstone dropped straight in, PH changed to 5.5, then a couple minutes soaking the rockwool. I used a little kitchen towel to drain some excess solution so it wasn't oversaturated, dropped in the seed, pinched off a corner to cover it... then began the nervous weight.
This was all on Friday. First signs of life appeared on Monday. Happy days! We have a winner.
I'm trying a couple different things this time - let's see how they work:
1) Bought a heat adjustable reptile warmer plate. Set at 25c, which is perfect temperature. Humidity in the dome: 80%.
2) I brought the Mars Hydro down low. Used an app to adjust to 6,000 lux - let's see if we can save energy this time round.
3) I wanted more roots before transferring to DWC bucket. So, I made the weird-looking 'Kratky-style' pot to place the cube in. I cut the neat little window (pictured) so I can peak inside and see how the roots are doing every few days. I added a little nutrient solution at the base but mainly to balance the weight. I shake the pot a couple times a day to ensure the water stays oxygenated but the idea isn't to grow the roots to the bottom. I just want a few inches of roots to form this time before transfering to the hydroton & bucket.
4) Bucket changes: I drilled holes right round the rim to facilitate easy LST. I bought insulating bubble wrap to better maintain nutrient temps. and secured everything with silver tape.
5) MAJOR airbubble upgrade. Bought a 25w Hailea V30 and a 500ml disc for it. When you switch it on it's like having a lobster pot at full boil. Surprisingly quiet in operation too.
Bucket and pump will make appearances in later instalments.
Day 5 and cotyledons are fully open. Seedling seems healthy and the length of root dropping into the "semi kratky" pot is as long as the stem is tall. I'd like to continue this little part of the experiment longer but I need to leave for a few days tomorrow and the wife is terrified of touching anything in case she breaks it! Will see if I can convince her to persevere with it, otherwise I'll have to put it into the full DWC pot before I leave.
* 3rd December - Day 14 from seed *
Well, what a week! And I wasn't even here to enjoy it. My partner lovingly tended Nora (we decided to name her) while I was away. Looking at 'germination week', you'll see I was constantly aerating the nutrient solution. For the first 4 days, my partner was pH adjusting the solution (Rhizotonic seems to leave pH constantly climbing - around half a point per day), pouring out any old solution from Nora's 'semi-kratky' pot, then syringing 24ml of solution through the rockwool. As soon as the tap root was around half way down the pot (4th day), we filled the pot so the tap root was just touching a well of nutrient solution within the pot. Each day, the solution was emptied and refreshed - not taking any Pythium chances here. Within the next 3 days the rest of the explosive root growth came bursting through the rockwool.
So, time to transport her. Made some changes to the bucket: lots of holes in the rim for LST, full foil-bubble insulation (including around the rim of the net pot , and aluminium tape around the entire silicone air line - zero light leaks), a very large new air stone, and a 25w pump to power it. The pump is ridiculously quiet - not 'quiet for 25w', simply ridiculously quiet. And as you can see, it creates a bucket which looks like a pot on full boil. There's absolutely no way pythium is getting any sort of foothold on this grow.
The root explosion made it very easy to position the rockwool cube within the hydroton - the roots are submerged while the rockwool sits just above. Decided to stick with the Formulex as it's doing a grand job, albeit the dose has been kicked up. Swapping the Rhizotonic for Regenaroot as I hear very good things, including that pH remains stable! Will now use Rhizo for foliar applications only.
D17
3 days after transplanting and something's off. I've changed so many variables - a transplant, a fat air pump/stone, prolonging the use of formulex, hanging the light lower but dimmed... so much changed that it's tough to call if it's one factor or various. As you can see, roots are still growing like wildfire. At first I had the water level just inside the net pot. Then when I saw the leaf droop I moved it to 10mm below the pot. The next day, when I noticed the tap root was already protruding an inch I dropped again to the traditional 2" below the net pot. A few hours later, I examine the room and the leaves are still drooping and stiff. The stems are pointing up, suggesting overwatering. Despite the water level being where it should usually be, the hydroton is still dripping wet all the way up to the tape line (as you can see from the pics).
Originally had 6ml/l of Formulex in the solution. When I checked PPM's I was actually above 650. I changed out half the solution. leaving me at 427ppm now. Around 100ppm of that is from additives, and 40ppm was my starting level. Will leave everything else as is and see how things look in the morning.
D18
Well, easy to see today that nutrient burn was indeed the issue. The browned 'single leaves' are a dead give-away; so too is the discolouration starting on the second node and the red stems. PPM's have climbed by 30, so she's definitely evacuating the food she didn't want right now.
D19
Balancing out well. PPM's ended day at 380, so she's back to eating again. The browned first leaf pair was browning further, so I cut them off so energy could be better expended elsewhere.
D20
The top is getting back to health. The leaves on the 2nd node have grown a fair bit, and the third node (5 blades) is full of vigour. 4th node leaves (7 blades by the looks of it) are now stretching out, and the 5th node, which I'll be topping, is just starting to develop. Although nothing exciting is happening up top, I'm absolutely blown away by the thick, healthy root development. The tap root is already an inch longer than the base of the bucket and there's new roots sprouting out of everywhere. This is looking very promising for the coming weeks. Despite insulating the bucket, I'm having trouble keeping temperatures under control, so I did a nute change a little early, so I could make some extra solution to refrigerate. Have now gone back to GHE TriPart, using 50% strength for veg growth. PPM's (including all additives) are at 470. Think that's about right for this stage of growth, and I have plenty of humidity to balance root and air based water intake.
Finally, I've learned the 'less is more' lesson when it comes to feeding in DWC! About bloody time too.
D21
Finishing the week in good shape. 5th node appeared, and got topped. GHE TriPart is doing its usual and after only 24 hours has discoloured the roots! Let alone the silicone air line. Temps have been kept perfect, and apparently Regenaroot also includes inoculants against Pythium, so I don't think I have anything to worry about there. The bucket was fully cleaned out between nutrient changes yesterday, too. Speaking of roots... this is precisely 3 weeks from being a seed! She's like a bearded lady downstairs, even if nothing too exciting is happening up top at the moment. Did a foliar of Rhizotonic after topping to help with the stress; the light has been reduced slightly and have dropped temps to 25c to give her a chance to recover. With a bit of luck I can start pushing her a bit harder from Monday, but certainly not with nutrients! The levels appear to be exactly where they need to be for the time being and I've decided to only go up 10% per week, unless she starts showing some deficiencies.
D22
Recovered well from early nute burn. Got to leave the girl unattended for a couple days - first time I've had to do this, so a little trepidation. Adjusted pH to 5.55 so there was plenty room for it to climb (always seems to for me).
D24
Got back to find her like this! Couldn't believe how much she was reaching, and was surprised to see some early nutrient deficiency. Added 3ml Formulex to the 12l in the bucket, and added 1 litre of the pre-made nutrient solution I had in the fridge (that's how much she had drunk in 2.5 days). Turned the fan on full, blasting straight at her, to get some strength in the stems before training. Increased light intensity by 25% - estimate she's currently getting 750 PPFD. She's lapping it up. Manually stretched out the top leaf pair to a horizontal position.
D25
Woke to find her better, but still slightly deficient (top leaf pair reaching straight back up too). Added another 3ml Formulex to the bucket, and again, manually pushed the top leaf stems out horizontal. By end of day she was better, but still not as green as I would expect from pics I've seen in other Triple G diaries. Made a foliar with 5ml formulex and 2ml fulvic acid in 1l of pH'd water - sprayed well when lights went out. She was still drinking lots - 3/4 litre more nutrient solution added to the bucket today.
D26 Looking much darker. Had to add an extra litre today (she's a thirsty girl!) but this time used plain pH'd water. At this rate I may need to change to a tote... 12l in a 20l bucket isn't going to be enough come flowering time if she keeps drinking like this (pretty sizeable net pot).
D27
Nutrient change day. The nutrient info above is what was added today - added a little CalMag to the mix as some of the new leaves were twisting slightly. She's looking VERY healthy and I can't quite believe how quickly she's growing. The 2 new main colas are starting on their 2nd node and I can now see I accidentally FIM'd slightly when I topped! It's resulting in the growth from the next node down reaching the same height as the 2 new main colas. I'd originally intended to follow LBH's famous 4-way LST tutorial but looking at this growth, I may need a different strategy. I'm aiming for 12-16 tops to fill out my little tent. AM wondering whether or not to defoliate some of the lower growth at this stage!? Am reticent to cut anything right now given how much growth is happening. The previously burned leaves seem to be very sensitive to nitrogen, so am wondering if it's time for them to go? Am pleased she got burned at an early stage - can see why it would be such a nightmare if she was overfed later.
D28
Despite all precautions, I seem to have root rot setting in. Temps have been perfect - been disinfecting the bucket between nute changes, have ensured zero light leakage, and been using regenaroot even on fresh water top-ups. Massively frustrated - feel like giving up on DWC altogether. Would rather have slower growth and some sort of outcome - not just several weeks of veg then a big helping of pythium.
Despite all precautions I seem to have early stages of root rot (earthy smell in bucket, iffy roots). Added 2ml/l liiquid oxygen... am wondering... is this salvageable? IE: Having caught it early, can I use H202 and put it into flowering? Or is that pushing water uphill?
Hey man, plants are looking all right to me. I don’t think that is root rot setting in, just your nutrients staining your roots. I’ve been doing DWC for a few years and never get perfectly white roots. Lol Add a little Hydroguard or UC Roots or H2o2 to your res will insure you do get it though. But if your water temps are on point with no light leaks all should be good. Sometimes light leaks in from the basket top through your pebbles, good to try and cover that area too if you can. Hope this helps, Cheers💨
Hey just a heads up... may be a non issue for you, but I upgraded my pump to a 32W beast this grow and I had it going full blast on the fragile roots in week 1-2 and it definitely stressed it and stunted growth a bit by knocking around the roots too much I believe.. I turned down the pump to 25-50% for the first couple weeks and the cranked it up.. but I love seeing that good oxygenation going! It definitely helps a ton once the root structure is better developed. Just my 2 cents, if you see any signs of stress
@russrahl, I'm aware of the difference between both. Ironically, the amount of air space in Kratky and DWC isn't too dissimilar (at the start, at least). Kratky is for smaller plants and the idea is, as the water gets used, the nutrients concentrate... so as the plant grows, the strength of the diminishing nutrient solution concentrates to support the bigger plant, and the airspace grows while the plant drinks too. Sometimes you need to add more water - it depends on how suitable the pot size is for the whatever being grown. Far too much opportunity for root rot if you ask me. Kratky is fine for seedlings, but past week 3 I think it makes sense to move to a different method/medium.
I left the air pump on over night. Nutrient strength has gone from 427 to 398, so it's happily eating from the water now! The drooped leaves are still dry-feeling and drooped, so you were right - it was nutrient burn. The new growth is looking much healthier now and she seems to have picked up the pace slightly in growth too. So, unless I see some deficiencies, I'll be leaving her alone for the rest of the week (until 5th node appears, which I intend to top). Roots are still growing like nuts - the tap root has doubled in size over night, so too have some of the side roots which were starting to appear from the basket. She seems to be happy as-is, so thanks for the help!
Really hate how EVERY manufacturer instructs way too high doses of their nutrients. This is 2nd grow attempt (neither seed germinated last time, so I'm not counting that one!), and 2nd time I've burned following nutrient manufacturer guidelines. From now on, less is more. Unless I see a deficiency, I'm sticking at 35% of whatever value is recommended.
BTW - my pot insulation works really well. Lights on at 6am, off at 2am. I keep 2l solution in the fridge all day. At 4/5pm I draw 2l of 'warm' solution, add 2l of refrigerated solution and the temps are sticking between 18-20c (optimal range). It helps that my air pump is outside the tent in a cool room, and that the volume of air being pumped through acts as its own cooling system.
@Sven_Lordy, I hear ya. The kratky method is a completely different hydro system from DWC though, can’t really compare them, except DWC is superior...lol kratky depends on your space between your roots and water for its oxygen, and your water level is kept just above the bottom of the roots and they have to be large enough to wick the water up them. DWC stands for Deep Water Culture, and it’s meant to be just that, roots in deep water. In DWC you don’t depend on the space between the roots and water for your oxygen, you basically completely cover the root system in water and inject oxygen into the water instead. Water that is kept at 18-20c is prime temperature for oxygen intake from the water to roots as well, the higher the water temp goes the harder it become for the plant to use the oxygen in the water, no matter how much oxygen you inject. You do leave a space still in DWC, but not until your roots are well established in the water, and even then you only need about 2 inches below the bucket, this is used for Co2 uptake for the roots more then oxygen though. If done properly DWC will blow any Kratky setup out of the water... no pun intended.... Lol DWC has everything it needs over its entire root system at all times if done properly.
Hi @russrahl, I see where you're coming from, and when I took a reading I was actually around 650ppm! I took out half my nutrient solution so am now at 427ppm. 40ppm is baseline of my water, 110ppm is additives and the rest is NPK and micronutrients from the Formulex. So, around 300ppm now of base nutrients. Am leaving everything else as-is and will check for improvement in the morning.
What I don't understand about your comment is how on earth Kratky works if what you say is true? The tap root is literally just touching the water at present so I'm not sure oxygen starvation would be an issue. I'm running a 25w pump in a 20l bucket, so am sure I could afford a little bit of off time every hour at this early stage?
Anyway, process of elimination... have started with nutrients (absolutely no doubt you're right on that point) and will maybe look at other variables if there's no improvement by tomorrow afternoon.
Sven_Lordy
