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Max PPFD without CO2?

PapaNugs
PapaNugsstarted grow question 2 years ago
What's the max ppfd for the plants in veg vs flower without CO2?
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Week 7
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NobodysBuds
NobodysBudsanswered grow question 2 years ago
It is an always shifting ceiling... unless you have a tightly controlled environment. Your temp and RH will be important too. other factors are invovled in this equation. DLI is a better way to understand it, then you don't have to account for different hours of use when comparing to someone else's results or previous results etc. So, remember this is a ballpark... and a large ballpark in a less-controlled environment. 800-1000 ppfd is going to be near max over 12 hours (35-42 DLI, if i'm off on the ppfd range, the DLI is more accurate -- google DLI chart.) over 18 hours, you need 2/3rds of power over 12 hours to acheive same DLI. 500-700ish ppfd for 18 hours. DLI is 1:1 directly proportional to hours of use... it all makes sense when you understand the math behind it. Google a DLI chart and see how it all meshes as i described. studies covering just a few hours difference show there is virtually no difference in yield whether you provide 40DLI over 10, 11, 12, 13 hours (all acceptable for bloom). you should only use more or less hours if you are using it to adjust what is given to the plant... I.E. more is not necessarily better in all cases. so, don't assume that. make an informed choice in this regard, not a based on whimsy. Is there a difference with large variation of how long light is provided? this is more important for an autoflower than aphotoperiod, since there's a limited range of common sense choices for photoperiods in bloom. 10-13 hous is rational and won't cause a hormonal balance issue in bloom. Autos you may choose anything from 24 - 12 hours, give or take... sometimes autos get placed in with photoperiods in bloom. The answer is i don't know. i haven't read anything that compared this to a baseline of some sort and with a suitable sample size to be confident about what was seen/learned. I'd expect at some point you get more stretching with longer dark periods... so at some point a "40 DLI" may have a slightly different outcome if some other important factor is significantly different from a 'norm' or typical expectation. it's all relative... so "optimal amount of light" shifts... if you udnerstand all the factors, it is easier to translate and apply this understanding of providing photons to the plant. trial and error... let this math get you in a ballpark as far as what you provide, then you observe and react to what the plant does... internode length will be a good guide. that will tell you if it needs more or less light. VPD will matter... you may need to feed more, but if vpd is higher than before it may take care of itself. rates.. change over time... don't think of the plant as a snapshot.. it's an ever evolving thing with constant change. it's not ml/L of X fertilizer... it how many molecules of each needed building block you provide per day... or per second or per hour... it is a rate that we must understand. it gets complicated due to all the relativistic factors invovled with feeding or giving light etc.
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crimsonecho
crimsonechoanswered grow question 2 years ago
nobodysbuds explained it well and if i might add to that explanation you’ll find out that *throwing more photons it can handle* to a plant will give you diminished returns at the end because a light burned plant doesnt provide higher yields or higher quality. so observe your plants and adjust accordingly. peace! *this should read: throwing more photons THAN it can handle. i forgot to write “than” and it makes no sense as it is hahah
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gottagrowsometime
gottagrowsometimeanswered grow question 2 years ago
It's all about photosynthesis. Light, nutrients (fluid uptake), co2. Look it up to get a clear understanding of veg and flower. You can read and read and read and still be learning for grows to come. And no grower can go from another's light or even a ppfd map cause environmental issues play a key role. Mainly how you exchange you air. If you don't have a co2 additive you need to bring in fresh o2 that will have around 400ppm is the norm, or a closed grow room can jump up to 6 even 750 if you spend a night in it with a closed door. But in general with a decent soft negative pressure tent makes for decent air flow it you sent up your exhaust top right and even half open a vent on the bottom left to get good air exchange with an os fan cooling the canopy. Happy growing pal. Don't worry about it too much. Stick with the basics from your lights instructions. Especially if you are using any type of decent led you'll find a boat load of info to go off here. But for veg you don't need to be using any 800watt light or anything silly like that. Keep the high ppfd for flowering. Look into VPD and then later LVPD but this stuff in itself is advanced and really not needed to overwhelme yourself get the basics going. A few core base nutrients. Dual feed, whatever. And a root stim if you want. Good luck.
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crimsonecho
crimsonechoanswered grow question 2 years ago
nobodysbuds explained it well and if i might add to that explanation you’ll find out that throwing more photons it can handle to a plant will give you diminished returns at the end because a light burned plant doesnt provide higher yields or higher quality. so observe your plants and adjust accordingly. peace!
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crimsonecho
crimsonechoanswered grow question 2 years ago
max ppfd is a little misleading max ppfd for a plant is the max ppfd you can provide without stressing them. not all plants can tolerate same intensity of light. sativas can perform better under more intense lights compared to indicas and hybrids. as a baseline 750umol is fine for flowering in most cases and 500umol for veg. this is not a constant as i said some sativas can perform well under double that intensity and some indicas cant even tolerate that 750. watch your plants and their responses and you decide. and higher ppm co2 doesnt allow you to grow in higher temps. higher temps are needed for co2 to work as it should. you dont add co2 to combat heat you add heat to make co2 work so thats false info though i’m sure there are growers who added co2 because they already had higher temps and enough intensity to make it work but it is what it is.
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gottagrowsometime
gottagrowsometimeanswered grow question 2 years ago
1000 is the normally range. You can grow up to 1500 with low co2. You won't have as good bud quality with a higher co2 ppm but you can still grow with a decent ppfd. Probably best to keep your light 30cm away. In most cases it's not actually the ppfd it's having the light so close to get a high ppfd is the heat of the light that's the problem most of the time not actually the ppfd. Cause the suns ppfd is like 2500+ in my country so it's really heat coming from your light. For veg you only need 500+ ppfd. A lot less is needed for veg. As you'll see many growers with big 1000watt lights but they'll veg out with a lower 300watt or even a 100watt. The high ppfd is really only needed for bud quality. A higher ppm co2 environment allows you to grow in hotter conditions and allows most ppl to grow at 8inch 20cm that gives them a 1500+.ppfd Good luck. Good luck.
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