DWC - Phoenix Seeds - OG Kush

@sativaman, Well I'm done with hydro for now. Just too difficult for me at my level of experience. Going to try growing in soil for the next run. Just have to wait for my supplies to arrive in an about a month or two. This should give me a bit more time to learn more about organics and how to grow in a no-till super soil.

@Ensign420, Please look at my first comment in this conversation QUOTE : Looking at ppm number closely I see major drop from day to day, That is your problem, ************* You still have major day to day drop you need a bigger thank and in the mean time up your feeding and check it twice a day! Bertoxxulus just made you a comment and explained you the same. If you want to succeed with DWC you should stop doing the same things (sorry)

@Ensign420, just saw your reply! hope you can keep her happy now!

@Ensign420, I am also using almost entirely hydroton and a 6" net basket myself. I start my seeds in the small 2" (I think) rockwool cubes and then transplant into the net basket. On this grow, and in the past I put maybe around 1"+ of hydroton in the bottom of the net. I put the net on my bucket and then begin filling it with water until the water line is right at the top of my hydroton. I then put my seedling (that is in a 2" rockwool cube) in the middle of the net, and then fill it in all around with hydroton until the net is either completely or almost full. The reason I do this is that the water is at the bottom of the rockwool cube so it will naturally force the roots to grow down. Also, the rockwool cube is not completely submerged which prevents issues such as overwatering. I have a "sight tube" on my bucket so I can always see the water level. I see some guys use it for other things but my only purpose is to see the water level. When I do the transpant described above, I also mark with a sharpy on the tube where the water level is. I keep my water level at this mark the whole grow. I have not tried techniques such as lower water level to stress the plant for potential better harvest. I personally don't feel that there is a need in my case. Also, after this grow I've decided I'm changing the way I transplant. I never really thought to transplant into the bucket right after the cotyledon leaves show, but I've seen alot of guys doing that here without a hitch. My next grow I'm going to try that because if it works nicely it would cut 1+ weeks down in veg for me. Using that 150W CFL takes the plant a long time to spit out two or three sets of leaves. Not to mention I'm hand watering a rockwool cube maybe once or twice a day. If it went straight into the system you'd get the same speedy growth you do when I'm used to transplanting. To answer your question, when there is about 2 or 3 leaves on the plant is when roots start to show typically. So really what I'm looking for is roots poking out the bottom of the cube. I may get a 3.5 gallon bucket so I can use the same netpot, but less water while it's a seedling so I'm not wasting so much. My top-off gallon schedule right now is I'm having to mix it about every two days. I also mix in R/O water if the ppms are high. Both gallons go down about the same level in a two day period. So I'd say roughly right now this plant is pounding down about a gallon a day. This means my mixed water doesn't sit around for too long. It may be more of an issue sitting around longer during very early veg, but it was never an issue for me. I can't give you a 100% accurate answer that it stays fresh considering the organics. The Roots Excelurator is in a metal can with a water tight seal and then a lid on it. I don't think it was intended to be subject to much light, but in my case I'm mixing it in anyways. I don't think it's going to hurt anything but it does stain my plastic jug. If I felt the jug were an issue I'd just toss it and use a new one. With flushing I start it when the trichomes are 100% cloudy and maybe up to 5% or less are amber. In DWC I flush for 3 days typically. Yea ScrOGS and hydro is just a tricky thing. I'm not 100% happy with my setup and have been brainstorming alternatives for my next grow. I will ALWAYS ScrOG though. To me with confined space it is the way to maximize harvest. I'd like to do two Auto's next time so I need to come up with a better universal method. My pleasure growmie!

@Bertoxxulous, Nice! Any help is much appreciated! Yea, I've heard a lot of good things about the H&G nutrient line. Wish I could trade in my AN nutes for H&G, but not gonna happen. And good tip on the weekly res changes. Makes sense when using organic additives. Yea, for now I'm still going to try to use the hydroton along with a 6" net basket. I have them already and might as well use them. One question, what level do keep the water at during various stages of growth? When you transplant, do you keep the water level above the net basket or below? Do you lower the level every week? I think I've been having issues with over-watering. Also, just wondering, when do you usually transplant into the DWC bucket? As soon as the tap root pokes out? Or after a bit of root growth? Interesting, I never really considered topping off with the same nutrient mix. I've only been using distilled water along with more beneficial bacteria/fungi for my top-offs. Do you prepare your 'top-off' gallon at the same time as your weekly res change? Does it stay fresh all week? And yea, since I'm using organics too, going to continue to check my PH and PPMs daily. Cool! Yea, going to check PH and PPMs everyday! Good advice! Although I think I'm experiencing a bit of underfeeding right now. I think I need to supplement a bit of CaliMagic to bump the PPMs up a bit. But not too sure. Haven't made it to flushing quite yet. Haven't even made it to flower yet. But sound advice non-the-less! So when do you start to flush? Do you start to flush after you see the trichomes at the desired level or just before? Also, in DWC how long do you typically flush for? And wow! Your current grow is looking great! Really like the double bucket setup to help with the water temps. Great idea to keep temps lower without a chiller. Also the way your scrog is attached to the net basket is genius! Must make res changes a lot easier to do without messing up the trellis net. What you say about res changes and using organics makes a lot of sense. Since I too am using organics, I'll continue to do weekly res changes. Yea I'm still a bit confused on proper lighting height and intensity. But I think I've dialed my light (Mars Hydro TSW2000) to an appropriate setting and height for this stage of growth (~39" away at 25%). I originally had my light at 100% intensity which was way too bright for a tiny seedling. As for PAR and PPFD, I have no experience (but sort of understand the importance). Also a quantum PAR meter (from Apogee Instruments) is just too expensive for me to invest in at the moment. I have an app on my phone which kind of works (Photone), but not to confident on its accuracy. But to be honest, I'm not too concerned about my light at the moment. Wow! Lots of good tips! Thanks again for your input and advice growmie!

@Ensign420, It sounds like ObiWanKaRobbie has a lot of experience with DWC, wheras I only have two successful grows under my belt in DWC (I used to do Ebb & Flow before). That being said I thought I'd give you my perspective: I am using (originally two) three organic additives (Roots Excelurator, Liquid Karma, and Hydroguard) to my mix including the primary House & Garden mineral nuts (Aqua Flakes A+B, Multi Zen, CaliMagic, Bud XL, Top Booster, and Top Shooter). This is my first time using Roots Excelurator and Hydroguard, but both have made a big difference. I am a firm believer in the effects of Liquid Karma, and there may be better products out there that are similar but I'm happy with it. Because I use these "organic" supplements I have chosen to do water changes weekly. I wipe my bucket clean with fresh water only and make sure to dry everything (I prefer using paper towels) before I put my new mix in. I think there are many ways to skin a cat, but Hydroton is often used due to its neutrality. I don't think using Rockwool only is going to make that big a difference except giving you the ability to use a smaller net pot. I certainly could be wrong about that though. When it comes to nutrients and PH, I have found they all have different effects. I used to use a different brand of nutrients originally and they had a different effect on the PH than the H&G line. Additionally, Liquid Karma brings my PH way down so I have to use PH up during my water changes to pull it from ~5.2ph up to 5.8. PH fluctuations aren't a big deal if they aren't huge. I choose to PH my solution twice a day. However, this usually happens with me topping my bucket off with a mix of the same levels I used for that week in my weekly water change. Because the Liquid Karma brings the PH down, and my bucket PH tends to rise...just adding the mixed water brings my PH back down. This means I don't typically have to add PH up or down, just my top-off gallon mix. To keep my PH at roughly the same ppm I started at for that week I use a combination of my top-off mix gallon and another gallon of R/O water. You eventually figure out how much you need to put in of what to keep it at the same PPM. My main point about the PH here is that, depending on what nutrients/additives your adding to your rez is going to effect how your PH behaves. I think there are alot of factors to consider, and would just like to say that you should not ignore your PH. I think keeping PPMs low is a good idea. You can experiment with adding more if the plant looks like it's starting to have a deficiency (which happend with me and CaliMagic on my current grow). If your PPMs start dropping though, that is a sure sign to add more in my book. Right now I just started my 3rd week of flowering and I'm sitting at 1070ppm. My ppm's are going up between my checks, but not by much. When it comes to flushing, it's all about the trichomes...that is unless your plant is having serious problems and it may be a better decision to harvest early before it's a total wash. My suggestion is that you want almost 100% cloudy and maybe 5-10% amber...but that is a personal preference thing. Amber = couch lock to me and I don't like couch lock. I've got zero sleep or relaxation issues and prefer uplifting/upbeat/high-energy effects. If you have too much clear trichomes you get a fast buzz but it doesn't last very long. I would also like to add this will be my first time using Bud XL, Top Booster, and Top Shooter so I can't comment on what to expect. You can check my grow out when I harvest and we will both find out together...lol. When it comes to rez changes (I've already commented above with what I do) if your mineral only (no organics) I think you can get away with spacing rez changes out. In my opinion, with a small 5 gallon rez and using organics I feel like cleaning weekly is necessary. If you had a big 20 gallon or larger rez (what I used to roll with in Ebb & Flow) you could get away with spacing those rez changes out even more. This again is mostly my opinion from experience and also what I've researched online. For the LED light I'm using...it comes with a small manual and light height recommendations based on what cycle of growth...easy peasy. The PAR thing is interesting and I'd like to know more though. I've definitely come across that information before but I have not thoroughly researched it enough to really understand.

@Ensign420, for the ppm pen I dont use storage solution, but for the pH i store it in KCI fluid. I'd check that out sooner or later, those bottles are pretty cheap from hydro stores and it might cause a headache later. I calibrate every 2 weeks

@BloodSweatBeers, To be honest, I don't ever calibrate them. I did calibrate my PH pen once. But never my PPM pen. Yea I've been really thinking about investing in a set of Bluelab pens and convert to EC instead of PPMs. I would also need bottles of calibration fluid (7.0 and 4.0). When I do, I'm going to check to see how off my current pens are. How do you store your pens? Would I need a bottle of storage solution too?

@Ensign420, Coco coir is just a substrate like your rockwool. If you nutrients are for hydroponic they are coco friendly!!!

@BloodSweatBeers, Really tempted to give it a go. The one thing that is keeping me from trying are my base nutes. They're not made for coco. But still really tempted to try it anyways. Must resist the coco for now.

@ObiWanKaRobbie, Nice! Thanks for the rockwool tip!

@Ensign420,use a razor blade to open up one side of the rockwool cube, then lay the germinated seed in place and close the cube up, use an elastic band if it won't stay closed...cheers

@Ensign420, I have never worked with rockwoll. I do have great success using Rapid rooter or Jiffy pellets. Once the root is out I would soak my cube of water and make a hole about 0.25 to half inch deep to put seed in with root down. Then carefully adding some peat on the top.

@Ensign420, Cannabis is some hardy stuff. When I had my tent off-gassing issue, those plants looked like they would catch fire they were so burnt up. Once I fixed the tent problem though, I still got a good harvest. I'm not sure if your plant can recover or not being in that low ph for so long. If it does recover, be on the lookout for it going hermi on you. I haven't used those testing strips/drops before, but from what I've researched, they are not a long term solution if you want to continue down the DWC path. You have to be pretty nats ass with PH in DWC and that requires a good pen. My old pen cost as much as the BlueLab does now when I bought it (~one hundred dollars). One other thing too...Once you do make it into bloom, be prepared for larger ph fluctuations. Once your roots fill that bucket up you may only be working with less than 3 gallons to fill the bucket with the plant drinking close to half a gallon or more a day. Maintaining PH becomes quite a chore during bloom with such a small reservoir.

@Bertoxxulous, Woah nice, good catch! Glad you discovered your pen issue before things got worse! Wow, if just 0.5 off can be an issue.. No wonder why I've been struggling. I've been feeding a good 1.5 lower since I've started growing (which is ~7 months). So I've been feeding my girls ~4.3 to as a low as 3.5 PH.. This low PH could also be the reason why I've been experiencing extremely bad germination rates. Yea I really wish I had a set of Bluelab pens. Probably would have saved me a ton of pain and money if I had invested in a set from the beginning. But until I can afford them, I'm going to be using the pens I have along with PH testing drops (General Hydroponics) and PH test strips (Veratrue). The drops and strips are both cheap and reliable (or at least they read about the same PH whenever I tested using both).

@Ensign420, Like instant Karma or something I started having spotting on my leaves over the weekend after I fixed my root issues with lowering res. temp. and hydroguard. I checked my pen and it was -0.5 off so I had been running my res. ph at ~5.2 for I'm not sure how long. Quick lesson in how fast ph issues become a problem. I'm going to try to make this pen work for the rest of this grow by testing it at least weekly. Hopefully it will work because I'm not ready to drop $100 on a new pen. Before my next grow I'll definitely be getting a BlueLab pen (the hydro store I go to carries them).

@BloodSweatBeers, coco carries pathogens and pests though

@BloodSweatBeers, very true!!

@Hydro_Bins, coco is technically hydro 😈

@Ensign420,, no need to top feed, allow the plant to search for it's nutes below.. you really don't want a surface algae problem.. Cheers

@sativaman, Yea the rockwool stays pretty moist. Roots reach about halfway into the water. And I've been top feeding her every day (I use a syringe to top feed and make sure to saturate the rockwool cube). This week, I've been trying to do daily foliar feedings too. Not sure what else I can do her.

@BlueDreamer1, Hey thanks for checking out my diary! I was sad that she didn't make it. But have a new girl growing strong and healthy so happy that I moved on. Glad to meet a fellow grower! I'm a noob too and all I have to say is that DWC is a lot tougher than I thought it would be. Been struggling the whole way.. BUT this was due to a PH pen that was giving me wrong readings (which I was assuming were correct). By the time I figured it out, I'd already lost a ton of time, money, and seeds (15 seeds in 3 grow logs across 7+ months). So I guess I'm not too sure yet if DWC is actually tough. But it's been tough for me. Kinda like driving a car to a location you've never been using a GPS that is giving you incorrect directions which you're assuming are correct (not sure if this makes sense). This last seed of this strain (OG Kush by Phoenix Seeds) will be grown in better PH conditions and I'm already seeing differences in both the way the plant grows along with how I've been growing. Don't nearly have to adjust PH levels as often as I used to. As far as any DWC advice, there's really only one but please take what I have to say as just a suggestion as I too am a new grower with little to no experience. Also the experience I do have may not be quite valid because I was using faulty equipment for most of my grows. So if you've been reading my grow logs, then this is kinda obvious, but my only advice is to get a reliable way of testing your PH. Don't go cheap on this one and invest in a reliable PH/PPM pen (if you can get a BlueLab set then even better). This alone would have saved me a ton of time and headache (without even knowing it, I almost gave up on DWC because of this). Also, I HIGHLY recommend having multiple ways of testing your PH. I was using only one PH pen that I blindly assumed was telling me the correct readings. Now I'm using both PH testing drops and PH test strips. I personally recommend you get both. They're cheap and can be a quick way to double check if your pen is working properly (I don't use the drops/strips for every checkup now, but they're good to have and I check every week or so for peace of mind). Keep in mind that drops/strips are not as accurate, as a well calibrated pen, but they're simple to use and are reliable enough to get your solution balance to a general level. Also check/calibrate your pen periodically (kinda obvious, but as a new grower, I was not doing this at all until now so just thought I'd mention it). Kinda traumatized with PH right now so sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record. Just get a reliable way of testing your PH. Response to PS: The grow is not over yet growmie! But keep checking in as often as you like! Thanks for the positive vibes! Response to Edit 1: Personally I don't think that using different manufactures will disrupt the PH perfect technology. Looking back at my logs, the PH perfect technology was actually working just fine. The main issue was me adjusting it. Response to Edit 2: I was experiencing water temp issues, but I think I've corrected it when I fixed my overall heating/cooling issue. Are you growing in a tent? If you are, then I suggest you invest in a way of controlling the room temp (I had to get both an AC unit and heater). Once I managed to get the room temps at a stable level, getting the tent temp down to 70-73°F was easy. Keeping the bucket on the floor will keep the water a bit cooler than the room temp. So as long as you keep the tent temp at about 70-73°F, your water should stay nice and cool (I've been able to keep my water at a stable 67-69°F without a water chiller). I've heard of the frozen water bottle trick too, but have not tried it. If temps get out of control again, I may give it a try but not if there's a lot of roots in the bucket. I've heard that the direct contact with the cold ice to the roots will shock them.

@ObiWanKaRobbie, Yep! Trying again! Just have to keep on growing and learning!

@Shooey, Yea, decided to reset and try the last bean of this strain. Hopefully she germinates. Otherwise will have to call it quits for this strain and go onto the next. Thanks for the positive vibes growmie! Still searching for that diamond and not giving up! 👍 🖖

@sativaman, Yea, I really hope that these tester drops are more reliable than the pen I've been using. I think I can already see improvements on growth since I corrected the PH.

@sativaman, Thanks growmie! Last week went quite well! Hopefully this week goes just as smooth.

@BloodSweatBeers, Thanks dude! Still growing well!

@Smokwiri, Much appreciated buddy! Happy growing for the year 2021!

@sativaman, I read somewhere that certain nutrients require a very low PH to be up taken through the leaves. But I think if I foliar feed again, it won't be at the same high acidic levels I was feeding at.

@sativaman, Yea, didn't know that using tap water in the humidifier will create dust particles that can clog your filters. Opps.

@BloodSweatBeers, I highly recommend it! I got the Elitech STC-1000Pro-TH (non-wifi) and it's been great! Just make sure that the device you connect is compatible. I recommend staying away from devices with digital displays and go more for analog switches. The smart controller basically switches the power on and off based on relative temperature and humidity (programing is a bit tricky but not too difficult). I say this because I was borrowing a heater while waiting for mine to arrive. But that mini heater had a digital display and needed to be turned on every time it was plugged in (it did not automatically turn on when plugged in and needed a button to be pressed to turn it on). Thankfully both my humidifier (Vicks humidifier) and new mini heater (Honeywell heat bud) are analog based and not digital. So things work great! Also the whole setup was relatively inexpensive (~$120).