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(2nd try) Growing in Coco - organic nutrients possible or only synthetics?

Spike-GreenGrower
Spike-GreenGrowerstarted grow question 20d ago
Can one use Organic nutrients + microbes when growing in Coco? I have two full bottles of Alga and Bloom and don't want to toss them. My tapwater is hard enough (now with proper pic) so Ca shouldn't be a problem 😂 What would be the advantages vs disadvantages?
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Ultraviolet
Ultravioletanswered grow question 20d ago
A medium is a medium, a middle ground, a staging area. The composition of said medium will determine many factors. It's not that one is better than another, in different environments different mediums are better suited to different environments. Soil compaction is nearly impossible in coco, almost impossible to overwater, in humid colder environments where water doesn't move/cycle fast it can be beneficial, in very dry and hot environments you might want a medium thay retains moisture longer rather than less. In very dry warm conditions you may need to water multiple times per day, for some it is not possible to water 2x per day, requiring bigger pots or different medium/middle ground. The main difficulty is that coco is an inert, soilless medium with minimal microbial life, which is essential for breaking down most organic nutrients into a form plants can absorb. Micros "consume" nitrogen and carbon to breakdown organic nutes. Coco itself is high in carbon, but the breakdown is slow, often too slow to keep up with organic growing. Balanced nutrient solutions must be added to support both the plants and the beneficial microorganisms. Not just the plant. In essence, coco coir is an excellent carrier or substrate for microbes, but for it to function as a beneficial, living medium for growing plants, you need to manage the C:N ratio by adding extra nitrogen and carbon of needed and other specific nutrients. Ca/mg. So it all depends on how it was pre charged etc etc. Making sure you keep oxygen in the medium will prevent anything bad happening, calcium and P vital for initial carbin conversion, then dose with extra N and C to keep the process ticking along.? You certainly can but will require more "carbon sugars" increasing the complexity of growing. Often better to keep things simple but with a little homework it's a+b+c as opposed to a+b. Gluck spike, much love ❤️
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00110001001001111O
00110001001001111Oanswered grow question 20d ago
FWIW - that ppm breakdown is very similar to what promix does with their BX and HP products. They have a good bit less K as the primary difference. There's a reason why so many companies use a similar formula. IT's based on the same existing knoweldge knowledge base instead of esoteric anecdote.
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00110001001001111O
00110001001001111Oanswered grow question 20d ago
your tap doesn't add nearly as much as you think... i'd wager most of it is not plant available. I live in an area with fairly hard water. Even with a water treatment facility, it comes out at 300ppm. Wells come out 500-700 around here. But, the larger point... when i switched from hard water to soft (convenience) i didn't have to change my formula at all. Still needed ~100+ ppm of Ca, regardless. YMMV, based on ratio of other nutes impacting availability etc and your tap water differences... organic is a marketing term. HEck, even the science term doesn't mean much... a loose categorization that is not entirely basedon cause and effect. They've had to re-write the definition at least one time, lol, which should tell you enough about its arbitrary nature. As long as it's 100% soluble and 100% plant-ready, it's okay to use in a soilless or hydro context. The ratio and concnetration of each nutrient element is the 'cause' that matters. I'd suggest mimicking JAcks 321, cropsalt, megacrop, masterblend, southern ag, kosher-something brand et al... It's no coincedence that all these brands do a very similar 'mixed' formula. There are free apps and websites that can calculat a dosage from your nutrient labels to hit a target level of concentration for each... can save a little trial and error. Vege plant N 120-130 P 40-60 K 180ish Ca 100+ Mg 75-80 S 100ish This would be a safe starting point. May need to ramp up from there. Always let the plant make the decisions, and you'll adapt whatever formula you use over time to work better.
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yan420
yan420answered grow question 20d ago
Hey growmie, it depends what you mean by “organic in coco,” because people use that word around for all kinds of things. Some “organics” behave fine in coco, some don’t, and some are basically just light salts with a green label. Those liquid extracts you have Alg·A and Bloom are the easy ones, kelp, amino stuff, fish hydrolysate, molasses blends, humic/fulvic mixes, all of that works very well in coco. The plant absorbs them the same way it absorbs mineral salts, because they’re already broken down. They’re just low strength, so you normally use them as supplements instead of your main feed. Good for stress and terps, but not enough NPK to run a whole grow. Microbes also work fine in coco. They help early on with roots and uptake. Once you start feeding heavier salts they slow down, but that’s normal and not an issue. Where coco struggles is with the real organic stuff that actually needs soil biology to break down — dry amendments, BioTabs, guano, compost-heavy mixes, Gaia Green, that type of thing. In coco they release too slowly and unpredictably, pH jumps around, and correcting deficiencies becomes a headache. Coco just isn’t built like soil, so it can’t process those the same way. And then of course you have the “organic” bottles that aren’t really organic (a lot of brands do this). Basically weak mineral nutrients mixed with humics, but advertised as bio. Those also work fine in coco, they’re just not what people think they are. So yeah, your bottles are totally usable. Just don’t expect them to carry the whole grow, think of them as nice extras. With hard water you’re probably okay on calcium, just keep an eye on magnesium. Have a good one bro ✌️♥️
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Green_claws
Green_clawsanswered grow question 20d ago
Microbes do more than just convert to nitrogen the plant lures the in to the actual root and uses super oxide to make nitrates so to stop the cell wall disintegration to survive put the plant takes some nitrates to grow and the cycle continues until they are spat out of the root back into the soil to grow to do it all again, they give multiple and supply ethylene and loads of other great and magical stuff..... Medium isn't just medium it's like choosing a planet to live on... Soil being earth lol...
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Green_claws
Green_clawsanswered grow question 20d ago
Not really, it needs to be immediately available to your plants. Microbes can be used but use a coco base feed
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JonnyTerpen
JonnyTerpenanswered grow question 20d ago
Vielleicht gemischt mit etwas wurmhumus, aber nur coco wird glaub ich schwer. Coco mit etwas humus und perlite mischen und es ist vielleicht einen Versuch wert. Hol dir lieber mineralischen Dünger.
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